Star Fleet Universe Discussion Board (2024)

<!-Text-!>(601.11) The rule in the last line of the scenario note in (601.11) says that "The Klingons cannot occupy Neutral Zone hexes adjacent to the Tholians until they are at war with the Federation." As this is a specific rule, it overrules the general rule (503.64) but only in a historical scenario such as (601.0) The Wind. This rule effectively prohibits the bold Klingon strategy of delaying the invasion of the Federation until Turn #10 and attacking the Tholians on Turn #7 (with the Federation reaction limited to sending the Seventh Fleet into the Klingon-Tholian neutral zone hexes under the Limited War rules), at least during a historical scenario.

(600) A question came up on the BBS only a few days before this issue went to press, asking whether the definition of deployment areas by province number meant that ships had to be deployed evenly between the provinces, or if at least one or some ships had to be in each province. The basis for this theory is that province lists are in the form of "1012, 1014, 1016, and 1018" and some think that the use of "and" rather than "and/or" implies some kind of even distribution rule. It does not.

(603) Some have asked where the reference to "set up the Gorns at the start of Turn 12" means that Gorn reserve fleets could move into battle hexes in Fed or Romulan territory during the Romulan portion of Turn 12. It does not. The "set up before Turn 12" is simply a matter of convenience. The Gorn counters aren’t going to be used during the first 11 turns and will get dusty. <!-/Text-!>

<!-Text-!> Q: I have questions regarding (653.0) D. Early Warning (+10). It says: "Move the entire Old Colonies squadron to the capital before the game begins." Is the Old Colonies squadron activated by this? Does this include all four PGSs?
A: Yes, it activates the squadron. All four PGSs are activated but they are in the off-map area not the "squadron" per se and are activated there, not at the capital.

*** Change (653.0) D. : Move the entire Old Colonies to the capital and activate it when the Home Fleet activates. The PGSs remain in the off map area and activate per (317.4). <!-/Text-!>

<!-Text-!>(601.1614) Add that Klingons can sell a warship to the WYN (449.2) and conduct trade with the WYN (449.11) via blockade running.

FEAST COMMENT: The Klingons have Turn 1 trade rights with the WYN but according to (601.1611) Klingon ships can't leave Klingon space. It doesn't make sense to have trade rights and access and not be able to use them. I assume Klingon trade has been going on for years and why would it stop for this 6 month period?

Ryan Opel 24 Jul 21

FEDS: One might say that the Klingons don't want to make any provocative moves outside of Klingon space; conducting trade outside of their territory should be seen as not provocative and should be permitted.<!-/Text-!>

<!-Text-!> Copied from Q&A

"By Ryan Opel (Feast) on Tuesday, July 27, 2021 - 08:14 pm: Edit

Quote:

Q: In my current game we are about to enter Turn #7 without a Klingon attack on the Federation. This puts the Federation into a Limited War situation and says it can send the Fourth Fleet into Kzinti space. The rules state that the Federation Home and Third Fleets are able to move freely inside of Federation space. Does this also allow ships in those fleets to be converted?
A: The second-to-last sentence of (654.2Y) in the F&E2KX rulebook [Fighter Operations (602.49B)] covers this. This is the section that is about what is not allowed when at Limited War. It says "Anything not otherwise covered." This means no, the ships in the Home and Third Fleets cannot be converted as they are not expressly permitted to be converted by that rule. For those who were not aware, the original rule (602.49) defining endless details of Limited War was published in Fighter Operations and, with very minor edits, became rule (654.0) in F&E2KX.

What about players converting ships during peacetime using Diplomatic Income? (540.23) says "Any EPs generated under this rule in peacetime could be spent at the owner's discretion." Does this allow converting ships in unreleased fleets? I.e. any fleet during peace, any unreleased fleet during limited war?

Ryan Opel 27 July 21

===============

REF:

(600.32) UPGRADES: The ships, but not the bases, of an inactive fleet can be converted at the starbases in that fleet’s area if the empire is on Wartime status. Ships from other friendly fleets can enter the area to use repair/conversion facilities.

(600.323) An empire not on wartime status cannot perform conversions of its ships.
FEDS: I think we may have a rule contradiction as the above SPECIFIC rules make it clear that conversion of ships ARE permitted when an empire is under a wartime status. These seem to form a contradiction between (600.32) and (600.323) with (654.2Y).

FEDS thinks that ship conversions ARE permitted during any wartime status based on (600.32) and (600.323) and that (654.2Y) should be corrected.}

By Steve Cole (Stevecole) on Wednesday, July 28, 2021 - 12:29 am: Edit

Ryan, that is an SO question. be sure it gets into that topic.

"

If it helps - it seems the last bullet point of 602.49B just needs to be deleted - as any rule expansion would need a specific rule if it could be used by an Empire at Limited War.

The specific question though would seem to make an Empire at Limited War, weaker than an Empire at Peace - which logically does not make sense - i.e. why restrict a power which is in effect doing some aggressive actions - when a power fully at peace has more free reign?

So the Romulans or Gorns can convert what they like using diplomatic income.... the Klingons can convert ships in unreleased fleets - yet a power such as the Federation - which can manoeuvre the Home and Third fleets within Federation space, can't convert any?

I think 602.43 provides an easy answer in that where something is 'partially available' - in that this rule can be expanded to include that the Fleet AREA remains unreleased, but the FLEET is released to operate within a specified area - i.e. the Home and Third fleets are unreleased - but only within Federation space and the areas which was covered by those Fleets remains unreleased (other than MB's being able to be deployed).

Suggested wording

(602.43) Limited Availability. The Federation Home and Third Fleets (see Annex 702) can maneuver within Federation territory. In effect 'Limited Availability' creates a third definition for Fleets and Fleet Areas, which sits between Active and Un-active.

Limited Availability splits the Fleet away from the Fleet Area.

The Fleet Area remains unreleased (other than MB's being able to be deployed)

The Fleet is released for all intents and purposes, but until full war occurs - is inly released to operate within the Empires own territory.

Limited Availability may cover other Empires and Fleets and the appropriate restrictions would be covered in any Scenario Specific rules."

Hope this helps.

P.S. Would add to Warbook FO (where the expanded rules are in and not SO - I think that was a mistype) - but not sure any topics are open for general posting. <!-/Text-!>

<!-Text-!> (653.11 L Early CVs). We decided to try this variation in our current game, and both of us agree that this option either needs to be scaled down or valued at more than 20 points. We also gave the Kzintis a 20-point option, and the difference between the two has been striking.

If keeping it at 20 points, I would suggest adding a CV group to the Home Fleet and deleting the other additions. Otherwise, I would suggest upping it to 30 points. <!-/Text-!>

<!-Text-!>Another comment on the values of some of the balance options.

(653.4 F Planets) is an option worth five points. Since the Romulan planets are going to be activated within three turns, this probably produces six economic points.

(653.11 G LDR Reconciliation) is an option worth four points. This option produces five economic points (three from the planet and two for the province), and because there is almost no chance this territory will be captured, it provides the five points for the duration of the game - over 150 economic points. Not only that, the Lyrans also gain a CA, CL, DD and FF.

It doesn't make sense that the Romulan option is worth more than the Lyran one. I would recommend increasing the value of the Lyran option to at least ten, and an argument could be made for increasing it to 15.<!-/Text-!>

<!-Text-!> In addition, note that with standard base game rules, the Lyrans only have the BATS at 0413 within 6 hexes of the Hydran Capital in 0617. Purchasing 653.11 G then gives the Lyrans 2 more such BATS (0612 and 0812) for a total of 3. This makes it more difficult for the Hydrans to attempt to interfere with the initial Lyran attack by destroying Lyran border BATS.

Also note that 653.11 G opens up the map and the Lyran planets in 0711 and 0810 now become within 6 hexes of the Hydran SB at 0716. These are of course planets, which cannot be destroyed. This makes it even harder for the Hydrans.

So, IMHO 653.11 G is an even more valuable option for the Lyrans.

--Mike <!-/Text-!>

<!-Text-!> 601.2. Clarify when the Enemy's Blood and West fleets are released:

Argument for CT3: "LYRAN: All forces are available." and "KLINGON: All except Eastern Fleet and Home Fleet."

Argument for AT3: "If Hydrans do not attack, released Coalition forces available against Kzintis."

See Q&A Discussions, April 24 - 30, 2024 for full details. <!-/Text-!>