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<!-Text-!> I'm not sure if I can move my F14 deck crews over to the F18 modules. I think your right, for future reloads that makes sense.Do they require a turn for relocation? Time to put my nose back into the MRB. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867358-!><!-Post: 867367-!><!-Time: 1707879256-!>
<!-Text-!> You're right but that leaves 36 deck crews ... <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867367-!><!-Post: 867411-!><!-Time: 1708108132-!>
<!-Text-!> I am wondering about the base's weapon status. The thing is that the Klingons (actually the Klingon player) is employing what amounts to a Special Attack Force with these suicide freighters. It is established that the freighters are slow enough that the Starbase can see them coming. Enough time to allow the pilots to have a good meal or get some sleep (not represented in game terms), but to allow the Deck Crews to have the fighters fully prepared for combat. Not to mention readying the Base's weapons and have your supporting ships ready themselves for combat and deploy according to a defense plan. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867411-!><!-Post: 867418-!><!-Time: 1708181268-!>
<!-Text-!> Hmm . . . We hadn't considered that in the set up.
Y'all are making a lot of good points.
Constructive feedback is our goal in this venture, so this is awesome.
In this scenario, the randomly rolled weapon status for the 'star base' might better have been just set at WS2, or even 3.
Given how far Game #3 has progressed, we're not sure we can retroactively patch that in.
. . .Must find my Happy Place . . .think . . .think. . . <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867418-!><!-Post: 867434-!><!-Time: 1708294979-!>
<!-Text-!> STARBASE TRYOUTS: Game #3
Restart.
If General Scenario (SG8.0) Assault on a Starbase is fundamentally a firepower comparison between a starbase versus fleet, then the premise of this mini campaign can be defined as follows:
Game #1 was simply a playing of SG8. Establishing a baseline.
Game #2 was (in our minds) representative of an active, but basically peacetime base with some rudimentary defenses in place. (And the attack just happened to be on the evening of the annual policeman's ball.)
Game #3 was to represent an assault against a well defended and prepared target. The high suicide freighter count is just something we've always talked about doing and this seemed as good a place to do it as any.
It does seem to make more sense that, from the time of detection of such a large, slow moving force, a defender would summon all available fighting ships and the Starbase would make an effective rally point. Therefore, all else being equal, Game #3 will begin again.
A new minefield will be worked up, both sides will begin at Weapon Status 3. The Klingon Player still has his 3 large freighters and 5 small ones. We are still considering a few other minor tweaks and changes and are certainly open advice, comments, questions, concerns, complaints, opinions, insults (in good humor), and our snack fundraiser is at GoFundMe . . .JUST KIDDING! <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867434-!><!-Post: 867786-!><!-Time: 1710117479-!>
<!-Text-!> STARBASE TRYOUTS: Game #3A (the set up)
The simulated colony of SimK942P was filled with a cacophony of defensive variables by the algorithms of the Federation wargame computers. The question being, could such an arrangement of force multipliers win the day against a dedicated and equally variable siege force?
Its a foregone conclusion that this simulation assumes a constant cannibalizing and redeploying of resources in a dynamic wartime situation.
The federation forces, while forewarned of the attack, were unable to summon a force of sufficient size to challenge the Klingons prior to the main assault. (Alternatively, the forces listed here represent what is left of a previous space battle to defend the system.)
The Klingon directive is to leave the planet and its facilities intact. Once the StarBase is destroyed, a future landing force will invade and secure the planet and its resources. The moon also, is a desirable prize, further complicating the Klingon assault. Should the destruction of the StarBase be untenable, annihilation of the planet and moon can be considered, if practical at that point. In either case, the Federation loses if the base or the planet is destroyed (rendered uninhabitable).
Here are the proposed forces:
Y181 Federation: StarBase: one squadron of twelve F14As, one squadron of A10s, and two squadrons of F18Bs. There is a 3 package minefield surrounding the base at an undisclosed distance.
Four hexes distant is Class M planet, SimK942P. On its surface are two small military garrison bases (GMG), four small warning stations (GWS), two small fighter ground bases (FGB-S) with a total of twelve F20s, two Type E ground missile defense bases (GME), and two ground based phaser 4s.
Additionally, there are 3 agro stations (GSA), 3 small power stations (GPS) forming 3 independent power grids with some of the above military hardware. Finally, there are 5 phaser 2 style defense satellites orbiting the planet.
The ground based fighters are operated by the local National Guard, as are the missile bases and phaser stations. One ground warning station is purposed as an operational training center for both Federation and National Guard personnel.
More than a regiment of Federation marines are stationed here, coming closer to a group of maybe 4 battalions if the additional National Guard forces located here is accounted for.
At 7 hexes distance from the StarBase there is a small, airless moon. It sports 3 ground based mining stations (GMS) and 3 Type-B ground missile bases (GMB).
Federation starship forces are as follows:
One small armed freighter operated by the Federation Police.
One small auxiliary cruiser operated by the local National Guard.
Starfleet forces include, an NCA, NCL, and a FFG
Klingon forces are unchanged from previous but are here relisted:
C7, D5, D5, D6U with 24 Z-YBs, AD5, F5E, D5P with 6 G1 PFs, D5J, D5M, FW5S, F6,
3 F-L (suicide rigged), and 5 F-S (suicide rigged)
All fighters and shuttles have booster packs.
My thoughts/predictions:
The Klingon's have a tough fight. My prediction is that they will experience pain, lots of pain.
The Federation have no easy fight either. It must defend the base as well as the planet as both are at risk. The moon isn't within any victory parameters and thus is just a bonus to Federation defense. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867786-!><!-Post: 867789-!><!-Time: 1710129343-!>
<!-Text-!> While I know it isn't the target, perhaps the Klingons can use the planet as a shield from the Ph-4s aboard the StarBase?
The planet based weapons can also be neutralized, and once the ones that might be facing their direction have been, landing troops to try to capture the economic assets on that side of the world will pressure the Federation into sending their mobile units after them.
Divide and conquer?
For that matter, will the D6U, its escorts, and the suicide rigged freighters be holding back, and if so, for how long? At range, unless they've been already told otherwise, the Federation might think the latter are troop carriers meant to assault... Something; maybe the StarBase, maybe the planet.
Let's see... What else...
You point out that the Federation have three standard minefield packages (at an undisclosed distance). I would remind myself that, if there are six automatic mines within a certain distance (ten hexes, if I remember right, and that's a BIG 'If'), then its perimeter can be sensed. Do the Federation plan on making use of them, or will most of them be under command control (allowed for bases, and a favorite of mine for base defense).
Perhaps the Klingons could use the D5J as a tractor pusher to maneuver the D5M against it (as needed) and to use its impeded guns (assuming crew quality rules) in its defense from Federation mobile units? The Feds would probably consider the minesweeper a prime target, so I would prioritize its EW defense and have the D5P use its sensors to lend it as much ECM as possible. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867789-!><!-Post: 867795-!><!-Time: 1710159709-!>
<!-Text-!> Why first grade fighters AND some F20s? I'd think that there would be BOMBERS on the planet.
And rather than a FGB-S I think you want a planetary control base or large bomber base. More power, shields, weapons, special sensor... <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867795-!><!-Post: 867804-!><!-Time: 1710213714-!>
<!-Text-!> Hey Jeff, those are some great ideas. I cant say for sure if or how well integrate them into the play just yet. But there is some good food for thought there. The more I think about it, the more complex this setup seems to me. (Or maybe its just a big bite to chew.)
In Game #2, I was able to sortie a kamikaze force of Federation police cruisers and fighters against the attacking Klingons to some good (yet bloody) effect. In this game, the Federation maintains a healthy advantage in attrition units as before. I dont know if the Klingon player will use similar tactics or try something new.
The minefield:
The truth is Ive not completed a satisfactory minefield yet; leaving room for options. (Ive built several at various radii and densities. Im working on a master plan to incorporate the Base, Planet, Defense Force, and Minefield, but Im not there yet.
I like your ideas on the D5J and D5M. I think the Klingon will have to use all of the Z-Ys, G-1 PFs, and probably the D5J and/or F6 to counter the Federation Fighters. So how does the Federation counter that? (Of note is that in a previous game we played some time ago, my opponent used his Frax carrier escorts as offensive cores to his fighter swarms. I dont know if thats a good idea or not, but he kicked my butt that time.)
# # #
Well, Mike, you have opened up a can of worms here on my end. We spent 2 weeks sorting out all this and you made us realize wed entirely overlooked the option of bombers!
Heres where were at on that presently:
We absolutely agree with you, bombers just make sense. (And the opportunity to defend a starbase with bombers is just too much fun to pass up.) The F20s are out and 6 B1s are in. (Not a final decision, just a working plan.)
As for a planetary control base, given the date of 181, the presence of a starbase, and some other factors, that might not fit in with our slightly more hodge-podge approach here. I do believe a large bomber base is the right way to go, as you suggested. Also, we are considering reducing the 4 small ground warning stations to 2. But those negotiations are ongoing at this time.
Anyway, I suspect my logic and explanations are full of holes, loopholes, inconsistencies, errors, and oversights. As this is a work in progress, all this input and advice is much appreciated! <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867804-!><!-Post: 867820-!><!-Time: 1710295693-!>
<!-Text-!> Shucks, I hate when I screw up. B1's are in because B2's aren't available in Y181. So a single Medium Bomber Base will do (BMB). Also, we've agreed that 2 small ground warning stations (GWS) is plenty.
Now forgive my ignorance, but I've got a question.
If a colony has a single battalion of defensive troops on site, utilizing a small military garrison base (GMG), I presume that the GMG serves as battalion HQ, even if there are other types of bases on planet?
But what if you have 2 or 4 Battalions with multiple GMG's, How might one represent a more centralized, larger HQ?
In this particular situation (Game #3A), would it be likely that the ground based HQ is actually aboard the starbase? Is that viable? Or even likely? <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867820-!><!-Post: 867821-!><!-Time: 1710299529-!>
<!-Text-!> Just a guess, but it would seem likely that, since the StarBase is under "Federation" authority and the planet is under its own authority (the differences in fighter/bomber shuttles makes me think such would be the case), the StarBase Boarding Parties would be part of Star Fleet Marines, where the Boarding Parties planetside would be the Planetary Militia, therefore under the authority of their own command structure, not the command structure aboard the StarBase.
For that reason, my best guess is that there's some sort of regimental headquarters (consisting of a crew unit that would undoubtedly be able to be converted to militia) in some office somewhere in the capital city.
If the planet has a civilian planetary operations base (I think it's called), that would probably be the most likely facility to represent the civilian authorities on planet. Also, given that you're presenting the Federation as the defenders in this scenario, then the defenders down on the planet would probably be in a subordinated position to the civilian authorities there (i.e.: I wouldn't expect the militia commander to have the authority to declare Martial Law; besides, he/she/it is probably in a bad situation where, if they WERE to declare Martial Law, THEY wouldn't be put in charge, they'd just end up being nationalized by the folks on the StarBase, and I would expect they'd prefer to be under the authority of the planetary bureaucrats they're used to, rather than the "High-and-Mighty Bureaucrats of StarFleet").
Also, and again, this is just a guess on my part (so it's probably wrong ), the separate battalion commanders would have their separate geographical regions of responsibility (each has his/her/its own hexside) but would be able to pass rudimentary info on to each other.
Those are my guesses, but if the whole sector were to be placed under Martial Law due to the emergency (the predicted Klingon attack), then it's not unrealistic to have the planetary garrison be placed under the authority of the folks on the Base. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867821-!><!-Post: 867822-!><!-Time: 1710300561-!>
<!-Text-!>Joseph,
You
mightbe able to use the heavy bomber base anyway. The Federation had B-52s by Y165 so they certainly had BHBs. Now rule (R1.46B-7) HEAVY BOMBER BASE (BHB): allows the
Tholiansto operate medium bombers from BHBs since the Tholians never deployed heavy bombers. But I can't find anything that allows other empires (who did have actual heavy bombers) to deploy medium bombers from heavy bomber bases. It might be worthwhile to check with SPP to see if the Feds could also do this. If it is OK (a "big IF"), I recommend using the BHB for your B-1s. It is somewhat more expensive but significantly more capable than the BMB.<!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867822-!><!-Post: 867826-!><!-Time: 1710331049-!>
<!-Text-!> Akso, the BHB is MUCH better than the medium version.
Special sensor, etc. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867826-!><!-Post: 867838-!><!-Time: 1710379001-!>
<!-Text-!>I like the way you folks think. That all sounds great to me. I did find, in J2, Rule (R1.46B). It says (paraphrased), heavy bomber bases can do as they please.
So I believe a heavy base with medium bombers and maybe an extra crew unit or two would more than account for my needs and identifies a ground based HQ location (just for context and texture, not really necessary), and all that jazz.
Thank you much, and please, y'all got to start calling me Joe, only my junior high french teacher called me Joseph. I don't know why I didn't list my name as Joe when I signed up. Can I fix that?
P.S. Say Alan, I just noticed that we have cited the same rule (R1.46B and R1.46B-7). I recall reading those extra dashes, but for the life of me I cant find them now. I found my info in module J2, do you happen to know where you referenced yours from? If your info is more current, I'd like to go by it instead.<!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867838-!><!-Post: 867840-!><!-Time: 1710384465-!>
<!-Text-!>Joe,
My citation (R1.46B-7) is from the Tholian Master Starship Book so it only addresses Tholian bases.<!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867840-!><!-Post: 867846-!><!-Time: 1710433327-!>
<!-Text-!>Sigh. It is a code that I invented. When I did the first Master Star Ship Book and was doing the R1 units I needed to differentiate R1.1 (Starbase) Hydran from R1.1 (Starbase) Federation from R1.1 (Starbase) Klingon and so on. So I took to adding the Racial number to the end of Starbase (or other R1 unit) identification. Thus Alan Trevor use of R1.46B-7 in the Tholian book is simply R1.46B with the information for the Tholians (Bombers on it, year in service if different from other bases, etc.) I thought it would be clear enough and easy to understand. My apologies if I created any confusion.<!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867846-!><!-Post: 867852-!><!-Time: 1710446658-!>
<!-Text-!> It makes sense now. I'd call that a win. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867852-!><!-Post: 867857-!><!-Time: 1710471779-!>
<!-Text-!> Joe, I pulled out my copy of the Federation MSSB. The Federation Heavy Bomber Ground Base only presents size 4 bombers (B-52, etcetera), BUT includes a reference that the base is unable to use/rearm size one and two fighters. The exact reference is...
"Carrier: The heavy bomber base is a true carrier; see (J4.75), (J4.93), (J11.13), and (J15.22). This base cannot operate size-1 or size-2 fighters except as provided in (J4.899)."
MY interpretation is that, because size-3 bombers were NOT in that list of specific exemptions, it can be used to operate them. HOWEVER, there is the rule that shuttles can only use ready racks that were configured specifically for them. If THAT rule takes precedence, then it is illogical for a base built to operate a different kind of bomber could effectively operate smaller bombers outside of the (duly famous) Kzinti Weightlifting Team Rule.
That being said, if B-52s are kept in the atmosphere, they're still pretty potent drone launch platforms that have phasers and photon torpedoes backing them up. PLUS they're tough enough to survive as many as three overloaded disruptor hits each, and any Klingon fire going to take them out will NOT be employed against the StarBase. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867857-!><!-Post: 867860-!><!-Time: 1710502570-!>
<!-Text-!> IIRC there is a specific call out in the R section for bomber bases that Heavy bases can be used by 3 Space bombers. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867860-!><!-Post: 867864-!><!-Time: 1710519485-!>
<!-Text-!> The Heavy Bomber Base specifically says in its rule that it can operate Heavy OR Medium bombers. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867864-!><!-Post: 867968-!><!-Time: 1711141291-!>
<!-Text-!> STARBASE TRYOUTS: Game #3A (update)
Everything is all set now. Based on a great deal of input, advice, and suggestions, I think it's going to be a heck of a game.
There is a play map (counters and all). The Federation player has a master paper map with minefield clearly documented for play and any necessary review. The Klingon player has a 'development' map for basically tracking the minefield as it is revealed to him.
We have 2 blow-up maps (from the hex map pack on warehouse23) covering the start locations of both sides. Movement on the blow-up maps are written in as the play map changes.
All starting positions have been established and game play is ready to start.
It may seem like a lot of bookkeeping (I guess it is), but it allows us to play a very large scale game over time with a minimum of errors or lost documentation.
So we're planning to begin Turn #1 next week. Stay tuned! <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 867968-!><!-Post: 868295-!><!-Time: 1712540467-!>
<!-Text-!> STARBASE TRYOUTS: Game #3a
We managed to complete energy allocation today. Then we went and caught a movie. Dune 2. We should start Turn #1 next week. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 868295-!><!-Post: 868418-!><!-Time: 1713134971-!>
<!-Text-!> STARBASE TRYOUTS: Game #3a, Turn #1, Impulse #1
By mutual consent, the game began at the detection of the minefield. Weapon Status 3 prelaunched units included some Z-YB fighters, G1 PF's, and several ECM drones for the Klingon attack force and A10 fighters launched by the Federation starbase.
Impulse #1 began with the Klingon D5M minesweeper marking the location of two small mines, unidentified. He continued by launching 2 drones, 4 more Z-YB's, the rest of his G1's, and deploying his drogue from the C7. I've been informed that the drogue has been christened the "Shai-Halud." It's Type-H ordnance dubbed, Le Spice and Worm Tooth.
You see what I have to deal with?
The Federation launched 6 B1 bombers and 13 advanced shuttlecraft from the planet surface, they'll have to breech the atmosphere to get into position, per Rule (P2.412). Additionally, the starbase launched 2 F14B, 4 F18B, 1 A10, 1 MRS (downgraded from a SWAC used in Game #3.0), 6 shuttles from the moon bases, and dropped some strategically located transporter bombs.
That's as far as we got, just 1 impulse of play. It's spring time and that always brings on more demands of time, energy, and resources. We're excited all the same. For us there are a lot of firsts in this game: bombers, ground bases, Def-sats, PF's, and the limited aegis used by some of the war cruisers. (Years ago we either ignored it or were oblivious to it.)
So slow it may be, but the train has sounded its departure and is on the move. Getting started can be the hard part, once things get moving, a train is hard to stop.
What can I say? Death to Klingons! Buy bonds. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 868418-!><!-Post: 868433-!><!-Time: 1713190240-!>
<!-Text-!>>> "Shai-Halud." It's Type-H ordnance dubbed, Le Spice and Worm Tooth
This gave me a big chuckle. :-)
Thanks so much for sharing your game. It's fun to follow along!
--Mike<!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 868433-!><!-Post: 868442-!><!-Time: 1713221348-!>
<!-Text-!> and dropped some strategically located transporter bombs
Interesting, the moon base(s) and/or planetary base(s)?
How far out from the center point (planet, I assume) is the closest enemy ship ?
Did the minefield detection happen on Imp #32 of Turn 0, or mid-turn ? <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 868442-!><!-Post: 868483-!><!-Time: 1713408025-!>
<!-Text-!> Thanks for the encouragement, Mike. I think I like talking about SFB as much as playing. I guess that's why we're all here. While I'm at it why don't I say something obvious like, "Hey, didyaknow water's wet?"
As fer the minefield:
Well, I don't know if we were all that sofisticated in determining the mine detection point. I just counted back 10 from 6 mines along the edge my opponent wanted to come in from and declared, "This is the place!"
(Sorry, local humor.)
I suppose we'd call it Impulse #32 of Turn Zero.
The Feds dropped transporter bombs near the planet.
The starbase is central, the Klingon force is approaching using the planet as cover. The moon is presently not a factor, but it's missile bases are at the ready.
The klingons are 10 hexes from the minefield, 20 from the planet, and 24 from the starbase. 30+ from the moon. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 868483-!><!-Post: 868542-!><!-Time: 1713836788-!>
<!-Text-!> STARBASE TRYOUTS: Game #3a, Impulses #2 - #6
5 impulses.
Try not to think of it as slow moving molasses; rather, picture Steve Austin, the Bionic man playing in the na-na-na-na-na na-na-na-na mode.
The moon bases launched 8 drones in the direction of the Klingon war party, AND made several insulting gestures.
Both sides launched Additional fighters.
The first large suicide freighter is pulling ahead of the Klingon force, headed into the minefield.
I wish there was more to tell.
In other news, my grandson acquired all things Sonic Hedgehog for his birthday and was beaming with delight.
Have a swell week, but if it gets too bad, see a doctor. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 868542-!><!-Post: 868546-!><!-Time: 1713872694-!>
<!-Text-!> Sonic? So he's grown out of the Peppa Pig age? Congrats. <!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 868546-!><!-Post: 868648-!><!-Time: 1714347977-!>
<!-Text-!>STARBASE TRYOUTS: Game #3a, Turn #1, Impulses #7 to #23.
Before I give the play-by-play can I just say that I'm unable to fathom why I didn't put the bomber base on the moon, so the B1's wouldn't have to deal with atmosphere. I'm going to chalk it up to a fictional someone not wanting to pay for extra life support systems, and not because I'm an idiot.
OK, starting off on Impulse # 7, there is some drone and freighter movement. A pair of Klingon drones detonate a small mine. (In the future I might set drone detecting mines on a 1 or 2 pass thru delay to frustrate this sweeping tactic. If i could write a book on all the things I wish I'd done. . .)
By Impulse #11 all 24 Klingon Z-Yb fighters are launched and if I forgot to mention all 6 G1 PF's are active also. The admin shuttle from the first large freighter lands aboard the D5P, overcrowding its shuttle bay.
The klingons launch another admin shuttle from the 2nd large freighter on Impulse #12 and the freighter begins its ballistic charge. 2 more drones are launched. The minesweeper continues to detect new mines.
On Impulse #17 the number of detected mines is 7. The Federation starbase finishes launching 12 A10, 12 F14b, and 24 F18b.
On Impulse #21, one planetary phaser 4, and six proximity fused photon torpedoes from the NCA and FFG targeted the forward large freighter. It's being loaned 6 ECM from the special sensors of the D5P; the Feds put all their EW in self defense (I know, rookie mistake.) In the end, only 1 of 5 torpedoes hit home and with the P4 only did 9 damage, stripping the freighter if it's forward shield.
Impulse #23 sees the recovery of the 2nd freighters shuttle by the F5WS, overcrowding its shuttle bay. Also, the vanguard freighter moves into detection range of a large mine, a small mine, a captor mine, and a sensor mine. The captor fires its photon torpedo and hits desite a -1 EW shift. The sensor mine was rigged to detonate both the other mines. Long story short, the freighter ate 44 internals; on roll 42 it exceeded its excess damage cap and exploded.<!-/Text-!>
<!-/Post: 868648-!><!-End-!> <!-AdminFromHere-!>
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